The problem with poking phun at the comment, is that its an absolute true statement. I have been working very hard for years trying to raise awareness about it and luckily today, people are asking about it. The problem with people and depending on us humans is that in so many cases, people are corrupt and they act in ways that are more about making money, than any other else in life. And, when you bring money into the picture, its fair game how people act but thats a problem with this law. And, its another classic case where people, mostly republicans, want things every way or both ways, and are also selective with their opinions, points and half truths or facts. Many people go right up to the point where they will be exposed, and then stop. For instance,. if the by law if you will, is to make as much money, etc. etc. etc. etc as humanly possible and everyone abides by that one law, why would other human values NOT come into the by law or into play, so to speak?
The main issue is that people take advantage of that law.
Its illogical to pin point exactly what you need it to be, and to just run with it in that warped way and besides, morals and ethics still have to be in your brain. No matter the money to be made….
Regardless of me and how I feel about this situation, here is the lesson about why corps are people my friends……because they are legally and by legal, I mean the supreme court legal…..
Corporations were initially created for communities to build things like a bridge, a road or something for that particular community. It was not to make money in any way, except to help a community or town thrive because of that completed work.
Our 14th Amendment was passed after the United States Civil War to give equal rights to black people. “No state can deprive any person of life, liberty or property without the due process of the law.” That law is intended for states to not be able to take any more life, liberty or property from black people. The Corporations at that time, and their lawyers waltz into court saying that they should be considered a person and therefore by; law, a Corporation is considered to be the same as a person.
Which again, even though that Amendment is set up as the way to free slaves to rid of slavery in America, the Supreme Court goes along with it and therefore, between 1890 and 1910, there were 307 of those cases brought before courts under the 14th Amendment. 288 of those were corporations and 19 were actual black people or African American. Six hundred thousand (600,000) people were killed to get civil rights for people in the United States of America, and by one stroke of the pen one day in court; lawyers of the corporations convince the judges to apply these same laws to its’ corporations.
The doctrine does not hold that corporations are “people” in the literal sense, nor does it grant to corporations all of the rights of citizens. However, as interpreted by the the US Supreme Court, the doctrine provides corporations the right to secretly and with some limits – fund political campaigns. It is widely believed that politicians reward these contributions upon election. Furthermore, corporations, as such enjoy a kind of immortality and can not be jailed or killed, unlike “people” in the literal sense.
Here is my point again, is it selective to create bylaws to make money without any values that are moral? And/or is it cool to take advantage of that law as a way to make more money without any regard for anything else in life, except to make more money?
Because if say, financial companies and industries were set up to never be able to lose no matter what investment one makes, that is not morally sound considering you know its corrupt if you cannot lose no matter what you do with your money. Let alone you are the ones that lobbied to set up the rules that way.
Its illogical…let alone selective….Its hypocritical to act this way…and its corrupt because its easy to follow that law you illogically set up in the first places.
And, here is my argument vs the Baines of the world. They have done nada in broad scheme of life and they cost jobs. They did not create jobs. They cost many companies money.
Think about Willard from a production POV.
We have a financial industry that sells you something by nature because they do not sell or resell any actual product(s).
That company is on both sides of the deal or what they call a trade without there being any regulation.
These companies convoluted things so no one knows who is doing what at the company. These executives, without defined jobs seem to wear so many hats that no one knows the exact duty, let alone who they work for at the company. Which again, we see in our faces with Romney and his career. he boatsts about making money. Not how he made it.
And, no one questions its legality so lets not go there for one minute today, but did he gain that money in an ethical way?
I dunno man. If you look at Citi verses say a Goldman, one bet correctly on the mortgages and one bet incorrectly on the mortgages. I just would assume that there must be some conflict for companies to be able to hedge people’s money that way. Ethically, it’s also a huge issue when a company is allowed to hedge money for and against their very own clientele.
And, then because of today’s state of the financial industry, we have to infuse it which is now one side of an argument.
The other argument is to let the market deal on its own. And, when we do infuse these large banks with money, it does not seem to trickle down to small business owners. The bill to infuse money to banks merely raises or “bumps” up the ratings of the bank. The banks continue to foreclose on houses, squeezing the general public harder without giving any loans to businesses.
If an industry knows it can be bailed out at any given time, their ratings will raise with the Fed chairman and with the people that make our currency.
Its a joke…I cant hire one person, and there are industries that get fed money no matter what they with it. Its wild.
But even the wars…I mean WTF?
We cannot even clean up our major cities like Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Detroit or Baltimore and yet we are expected to send our military to go clean up cities like Baghdad, Basra, Fallujah before sending them throughout all of Afghanistan and then into specific areas in Pakistan. Could you imagine a surge like they did in Iraq, in West Philadelphia? If we just blew off everyone’s civil liberties, and go in with tanks and weapons to handle our inner city violence, we could allow our military to do that “surge” like they do in the middle east, in these parts of our cities. Could you imagine using that method as a way to control the hundreds of murders each year in certain U.S. cities? My point is that we cannot even take care of our own cities in America, yet we are over fighting wars trying to rebuild other cities and nations.
I just cannot help to think about that ulterior motive of rebuilding these countries for its people, by also setting up our own facilities in these areas just recently decimated by our weaponry in these wars. Companies like the Halliburton Corporation have gained that work with no bid contracts and without any competition. They can get the contracts to develop these areas without having any competition to do that work.
Now, is this moral because lets be real about it, the ex chair person and the current shareholder of Halliburton, was also the Vice President of the United States of America at the time we started these wars. During the term of him being the Vice President, he was part of an administration that started this War on Terror. They entered us into these wars using deceiving tactics in a campaign based on lies, or bad information from our intelligence committees.
That administration released a statement that “we went to war in Iraq bringing the Middle East peace.”
This country initially started that War in Vietnam partly because of the fake report about the ship getting bombed in the Sea of Algiers. Did certain people that are serving public policies help facilitate the appropriate legal reasons to start these two wars? And, was it done to make money on the private sector? For instance, if you invade countries with our military by blowing up their buildings, that would in turn mean new buildings, plumbing and everything would then need to get rebuilt by a private corporation. The Johnson family not only had some stake in the Steel, Inc. Company back in the 60’s, I am pretty sure he married into that family. That same company is the one that had the contract to make the weaponry during the Vietnam War.
But honestly, it’s the same ways Coca Cola started Fanta, Esson created ESSO and Ford had an alias too at that time (maybe Opal) but the most disgusting thing that started a major corporations successes due to the war, is IBM. The head of IBM, some one named something Schmidt, was a total goombah with Hitler. Therefore, IBM had the accounts to be in every train station, during that war, to coordinate and organize everyone that passed though those stations. There were no computers then, but IBM used punch cards to document exactly what happened to Jews, gay people, black people and/or any form of what could be a liberal person, to show the outcome or final destination of what were 6 million people that died in those concentration camps. If they were transported to them on any rail system throughout Europe, the IBM Company were the ones that made sure everything ran smooth while they incinerated millions of people. Those American based companies all created new names by way of creating a subsidiary, overseas and in Germany. That way no one could tie Fanta to coke and everyone else that made a ton of money because of that war. I think there is an element that acts with that same mentality today. I am not saying its illegal, but is it moral and/or ethical to make money this way?
When does the moral thing come into play here?
How about BP? What was that all about because 6 people were killed…and an entire eco system was ruined for however many years, just because of someone needed to make more money faster than the normal or legal way. be real about that issue because we know what it takes to cover a daily nut on an oil rig, and we also know they cut corners to get more oil faster to make more money with greater margins. And, they lied about it.
If corporations are people my friend, is it morally ok for that persons company to do whatever they did to gain money for a few and selective group of people, at the price of death and destruction?
Here…ill take it even further because this maddening and I just mentioned BP and that disaster…if corps are people and/or a person, that is perfectly fine, HOWEVER, corporations have a responsibility to act like a humans in EVERY way.
Corporations should face criminal charges for acting in illegal ways…and by corporations, I mean the people pulling those strings should go to jail.
It’s a murder case in the criminal justice system after a person takes their gun to use to murder someone.
Why isn’t it considered to be a murder case when a corporation knowingly manufactures products that create cancers and diseases, or cuts corners like on that BP rig, in ways to gain greater profit margins and to spend less money as another way to generate larger revenues for its shareholders?
At what cost is the corporation responsible for the outcomes of its actions? Especially, if its a person?
Should corporations face criminal charges for things like plundering our earth?
Or, like I said about certain financial situations, should they be thrown in jail for scamming people in say, financial situations and for screwing up the entire financial and housing system, just because someone needed to gain more profit?
Or, should private prison corporations that value their shares of stock traded on wall street be based how many inmates are housed in the facility, be allowed in the world? Thats a bit odd to think about now….And, it can ONLY lead to troubles…..There are NOT enough murders and rapists to fill these private prisons and therefore, it trickled down to non violent people….
And, unfortunately, after messing up the planet for 50 years, things like cap and trade and fracking, etc….leave these same corporations in control of our eco system today.
Is that morally ok to do to us?
I just heard on a conference call this sweek something I never thought about because take the state of RI, did you know they are being polluted by the companies that are doing it, in the mid west? So, that state complies 150% and is as “green” as it can get except that the head winds bn\b;low the crap from Pittsburgh and Ohio right into their atmosphere…..And, because we are so money driven and because so many peoples best interest is to keep things the same way, sending chemicals into the air at certain times of the days, cutting down our trees, digging holes miles into certain parts of the earth, polluting specific parts in our waters, will still continue to occur, until we find alternative ways to make just as large revenues with just as great profit margins.
Everything is regulated and controlled by us humans in some way. Oceans…air…land, etc….there should be some moral fiber behind it. Especially if you selectively use the “we need to create as many profits” mentality…..
Thats why the Take Back democracy program is so important for Americans.
But this is Grad School issue and actually if you watch the Corporation documentary film, a professor in it, states that no one ever asked “what a corporation is in America” in any class he taught in his career…
Its not easy yet it is logical, but thats the point too….the more convoluted it is to everyone, the better it is for certain people that rigged it that way.
If you want to stay stupid and ignorant, thats fine…but please…dont vote ever and dont be opinionated about things work against you in this society….
And, until morals comes into play, the ONLY way to change such a thing in America, is to change the law. Becaue there is an element of humanity that will take advanatge of everything in any way…..Thats why it needs to be dfined in a realistic way and not in way all about making money.
Thats the great irony about this law…it was never meant to be set up as ways to make money…..